The problem lies in our insistence of thinking of LGB as strictly a sexual orientation despite our insistence that we are born that way. By focusing primarily on the sexual component of our orientation over thinking about our orientation as a much more all encompassing condition of who we are, we find it difficult to consider gay and Lesbian children…even I myself resort to saying (as does this article) “proto gay and lesbian” like we are waiting to hatch. Now consider how we absolutely abhor associating anything sexual with children. We despise pedophilia, but children have sexuality…what child does not explore their genitalia to the chagrin or embarrassment of their parents? But this is why we seem incapable of thinking about gay and lesbian children. And look what has stepped into that void. It’s so much less threatening to think in terms of gender, but only because we only want to think of homosexuality as a sexual thing. So everyone is so happy to believe in the fairy tale of a gender identity and gay and lesbian children who from an early age begin to display gender nonconforming behavior as they figure out who they are in this world are now encouraged to transition. The studies indicate that if allowed to grow and develop they will sort things out by going through puberty. A significant majority will recognize they are gay. We must stop the conversion of gay kids. We need to address the cultural homophobia that the trans ideologues are weaponizing to their benefit. We need to recognize the autogynophilia that uses the transitioning of children to affirm their own transitions. Make it stop!
I have been celibate (sex is overrated) for more than 20 years but I am no less gay than I was then or when I understood who I was as hormones started raging in my early teen years, or even when I cross dressed as a “lady” for Halloween in 2nd grade (my sister had a fabulous dress up chest). And yet I am a man through and through.
As lesbian, I push back on the "born this way" narrative. I think we're born babies, and what later becomes our adult sexuality emerges over time, even if it feels like we arrived with our sexual orientation preformed, especially in retrospect. There are genetic influences, for sure.
There certainly used to be gay culture, but this is now largely erased. We've lost gay culture now that we've had legal equality in the US for 10 years and the force teaming of the LGB(T) with the (T)QIA+ is erasing what's left, subsuming it with gender ideology and a long list of neo-identities and corresponding ugly flags.
Reasons for pushing back include that if orientation is inborn, are paraphilias inborn, too? Is autogynephilia inborn, or does it emerge, between life experiences, including exposure to porn, and genetic predisposition? What about pedophilia? Should pedophiles claim to be born that way? They have been trying to join the Gay Rights Movement for a long time.
Letting go of the "born this way" homosexual narrative may also help us let go of the "born this way" trans narrative. I was lucky not to have gotten push back for being a gender nonconforming child, at least nothing significant. My hope is that we can leave the kids alone and let their future adult selves emerge.
As both sides are conflating gay with trans, the gay and lesbian communities are being erased, both through Gay Rights revisionist history and the corporate/institutional gender-washing of sexual orientation.
I went to my local Pride event last weekend after not going for several years. The contrast between the culture we created and what it is now was pretty stark. Between the trans-washing of the Stonewall Rebellion and the replacement of pink and black triangles that were a staple of homosexual symbolism in the movement with a long list of slightly different colored generated flags representing neo-identities, with no relation to anything prior to a few years ago.
Part of the loss is that we've had legal equality for 10 years and there's no fight to have solidarity around, per se, except, perhaps, our own erasure.
Very important insights. You don’t discuss it but I have personally snd professionally encountered more young same-sex attracted or just merely gender-questioning and non-conforming young women and girls being pushed to identify as trans. Some of whom did while some withstood it and successfully came out…as themselves!
That has given me exposure to the horrible degree of homophobia remaining in our society, specifically targeting young gay women, and the misogyny directed at them for resisting sexualization and stereotypes, both by outsiders and their peers.
I love your sensitive sensible and reasonable treatment of the celebrity cases.
To whom you are attracted sexually is purely subjective and therefore cannot reasonably be contested by an outside observer.
Where you decide to live your life on a spectrum of superficial, stereotypical male to female attributes (and we all do) is also purely subjective and similarly cannot be questioned.
However, your biological sex reflects an objective reality which cannot be changed by your subjective personal view and futile attempts to do so can result in serious health impacts to you as well as harms to members of the sex you are impersonating (primarily women).
Others who are grounded in objective reality should never be forced to accept your subjective version of your actual biological sex.
Finally, it's past time for the LGB community to separate themselves from the trans activists who are trying to take away the rights of women to fairness in sports and to privacy and safety in their restrooms, locker rooms and prisons. They also advocate for the chemical and surgical mutilation of children many of whom would grow up gay.
Their actions are evil and the
understandable negative reaction to the harm they are causing is spilling over to innocent people who are just going about their business, marrying and leading their lives.
Dave i’m not sure what you mean by subjective. i’ve seen this comment from you before and want to add that sexual response is quite observable, objective and even measurable.
You are very kind, Dave. Here is how I discuss it with my teens:
Trans: Amorphous and unverifiable “feeling” of being the opposite sex, often transient. Demands outside world accept false reality and cede rights to single sex spaces, not to mention surgeries and medicine to change the body.
gay: concrete and objective, measurable same-sex sexual attraction. Usually permanent after puberty. Demands nothing of outside world except tolerance.
As a very small child in the 60’s I understood that only girls wanted to marry boys, I wanted to marry a boy so I was a girl - child logic.
I played with girls and had a favorite doll. A few years later I learned that a man shouldn’t have sex with men.
But I wanted to have sex with men when I grew up, but I had stumbled on “trans” in adult conversation so I would “become” a woman in order to do so. Heterosexual conversion.
Age 10/11 I saw gay men on the Tomorrow with Tom Snyder show in a disco. Happy furry muscley men with shirts off and kissing.
Ok! That was fine with me, and all thoughts of trans evaporated for the rest of my life until I read of puberty blockers decades later.
Gay children like I was are still, to this day, clearly told that men and women get married (true) and men and women have sex and make babies (true) and develop inchoate nervousness about what they don’t fit into because very many of us knew that not what they were destined for.
That’s all.
At puberty it comes to a boil, but most of us figure it out. Some of us today are lied to systematically by the very lesbian and gay organizations which should be telling us how it is, because some men have a compulsion to imitate women, and have taken over lesbian and gay groups.
The problem lies in our insistence of thinking of LGB as strictly a sexual orientation despite our insistence that we are born that way. By focusing primarily on the sexual component of our orientation over thinking about our orientation as a much more all encompassing condition of who we are, we find it difficult to consider gay and Lesbian children…even I myself resort to saying (as does this article) “proto gay and lesbian” like we are waiting to hatch. Now consider how we absolutely abhor associating anything sexual with children. We despise pedophilia, but children have sexuality…what child does not explore their genitalia to the chagrin or embarrassment of their parents? But this is why we seem incapable of thinking about gay and lesbian children. And look what has stepped into that void. It’s so much less threatening to think in terms of gender, but only because we only want to think of homosexuality as a sexual thing. So everyone is so happy to believe in the fairy tale of a gender identity and gay and lesbian children who from an early age begin to display gender nonconforming behavior as they figure out who they are in this world are now encouraged to transition. The studies indicate that if allowed to grow and develop they will sort things out by going through puberty. A significant majority will recognize they are gay. We must stop the conversion of gay kids. We need to address the cultural homophobia that the trans ideologues are weaponizing to their benefit. We need to recognize the autogynophilia that uses the transitioning of children to affirm their own transitions. Make it stop!
very interesting ideas here, Larry. Thanks for your comment
I have been celibate (sex is overrated) for more than 20 years but I am no less gay than I was then or when I understood who I was as hormones started raging in my early teen years, or even when I cross dressed as a “lady” for Halloween in 2nd grade (my sister had a fabulous dress up chest). And yet I am a man through and through.
Hi, Larry
As lesbian, I push back on the "born this way" narrative. I think we're born babies, and what later becomes our adult sexuality emerges over time, even if it feels like we arrived with our sexual orientation preformed, especially in retrospect. There are genetic influences, for sure.
There certainly used to be gay culture, but this is now largely erased. We've lost gay culture now that we've had legal equality in the US for 10 years and the force teaming of the LGB(T) with the (T)QIA+ is erasing what's left, subsuming it with gender ideology and a long list of neo-identities and corresponding ugly flags.
Reasons for pushing back include that if orientation is inborn, are paraphilias inborn, too? Is autogynephilia inborn, or does it emerge, between life experiences, including exposure to porn, and genetic predisposition? What about pedophilia? Should pedophiles claim to be born that way? They have been trying to join the Gay Rights Movement for a long time.
Letting go of the "born this way" homosexual narrative may also help us let go of the "born this way" trans narrative. I was lucky not to have gotten push back for being a gender nonconforming child, at least nothing significant. My hope is that we can leave the kids alone and let their future adult selves emerge.
I know so many well-meaning liberals who thoughtlessly support trans nonsense because they assume trans is just another type of gay.
As both sides are conflating gay with trans, the gay and lesbian communities are being erased, both through Gay Rights revisionist history and the corporate/institutional gender-washing of sexual orientation.
I went to my local Pride event last weekend after not going for several years. The contrast between the culture we created and what it is now was pretty stark. Between the trans-washing of the Stonewall Rebellion and the replacement of pink and black triangles that were a staple of homosexual symbolism in the movement with a long list of slightly different colored generated flags representing neo-identities, with no relation to anything prior to a few years ago.
Part of the loss is that we've had legal equality for 10 years and there's no fight to have solidarity around, per se, except, perhaps, our own erasure.
Very important insights. You don’t discuss it but I have personally snd professionally encountered more young same-sex attracted or just merely gender-questioning and non-conforming young women and girls being pushed to identify as trans. Some of whom did while some withstood it and successfully came out…as themselves!
That has given me exposure to the horrible degree of homophobia remaining in our society, specifically targeting young gay women, and the misogyny directed at them for resisting sexualization and stereotypes, both by outsiders and their peers.
I love your sensitive sensible and reasonable treatment of the celebrity cases.
This post is so expertly and thoughtfully written. Thank you so much for staying curious and compassionate with every word.
Thank you Evelyn! Nice to see you here
You’re welcome. Just leaving DC now after DAD. It was such a welcome experience. So many courageous and dedicated people.
To whom you are attracted sexually is purely subjective and therefore cannot reasonably be contested by an outside observer.
Where you decide to live your life on a spectrum of superficial, stereotypical male to female attributes (and we all do) is also purely subjective and similarly cannot be questioned.
However, your biological sex reflects an objective reality which cannot be changed by your subjective personal view and futile attempts to do so can result in serious health impacts to you as well as harms to members of the sex you are impersonating (primarily women).
Others who are grounded in objective reality should never be forced to accept your subjective version of your actual biological sex.
Finally, it's past time for the LGB community to separate themselves from the trans activists who are trying to take away the rights of women to fairness in sports and to privacy and safety in their restrooms, locker rooms and prisons. They also advocate for the chemical and surgical mutilation of children many of whom would grow up gay.
Their actions are evil and the
understandable negative reaction to the harm they are causing is spilling over to innocent people who are just going about their business, marrying and leading their lives.
Dave i’m not sure what you mean by subjective. i’ve seen this comment from you before and want to add that sexual response is quite observable, objective and even measurable.
Cassandra: I guess that I am trying to distinguish between gay and trans in a way that most people can understand but you make a good point.
You are very kind, Dave. Here is how I discuss it with my teens:
Trans: Amorphous and unverifiable “feeling” of being the opposite sex, often transient. Demands outside world accept false reality and cede rights to single sex spaces, not to mention surgeries and medicine to change the body.
gay: concrete and objective, measurable same-sex sexual attraction. Usually permanent after puberty. Demands nothing of outside world except tolerance.
I see what you mean!
I am going to modify my post to hopefully incorporate your thoughts. It in some ways strengthens the differences between gay and trans.
As a very small child in the 60’s I understood that only girls wanted to marry boys, I wanted to marry a boy so I was a girl - child logic.
I played with girls and had a favorite doll. A few years later I learned that a man shouldn’t have sex with men.
But I wanted to have sex with men when I grew up, but I had stumbled on “trans” in adult conversation so I would “become” a woman in order to do so. Heterosexual conversion.
Age 10/11 I saw gay men on the Tomorrow with Tom Snyder show in a disco. Happy furry muscley men with shirts off and kissing.
Ok! That was fine with me, and all thoughts of trans evaporated for the rest of my life until I read of puberty blockers decades later.
Gay children like I was are still, to this day, clearly told that men and women get married (true) and men and women have sex and make babies (true) and develop inchoate nervousness about what they don’t fit into because very many of us knew that not what they were destined for.
That’s all.
At puberty it comes to a boil, but most of us figure it out. Some of us today are lied to systematically by the very lesbian and gay organizations which should be telling us how it is, because some men have a compulsion to imitate women, and have taken over lesbian and gay groups.