I think some of the “sweet, autistic boys” are actually running from their sexuality (rather than expressing it.) Az Hakeem talks about some of the men he has worked with who are basically asexual but they can still orgasm in a sort of functional way. Imagine being socially awkward, and much more attracted to things than people, yet being physically saddled with the raging hormones of a teenage boy. On top of that, hearing or seeing that “boys your age” should be girl crazy. In a black and white thought process you’d then think “I’m not a boy because I’m not interested in girls—I’m more interested in computers.” That all seems a perfect recipe for thinking your trans in today’s climate.
Regarding the adopting of a trans identity — in my daughter’s case, I think she wants to opt out of being a heterosexual female to avoid the hurt of being rejected by the opposite sex; to feel like she’s broken free of social expectations; and to feel like she’s the wise one for a change, the one on the cutting edge who’s figured things out that her parents/elders don’t understand. It’s a way to finally be cool on some level and have friends. It connects her with people she can identify with. It’s a reframing of herself and her life in a way that avoids addressing painful deficits and difficult change.
I'm so glad you made the AGP video and discussed how important it is that people don't get dogmatic or too attached to pet theories. I have been so concerned seeing the growing number of people who say they are concerned about the effects gender ideology and the medicalization of children take such absolutist, hardline approaches to the boys: "ALL adolescent boys who ID as trans are either gay or AGP, that's it. No exceptions." I've heard them say the parents don't really know their sons, the detransitioners who say it was not sexual are lying or in denial. Isn't this kind of dogmatic thinking, the insistence there's only one right answer, and the total dismissal of the insights of parents and detransitioners exactly how we got into this mess in the first place? Isn't that the kind of extreme talk we would expect from someone like Jack Turban or Rachel Levine? And this dogmatism if AGP is now coming for the girls. Malcolm Clark was on a recent Genspect video with Stella insisting all the ROGD teen girls had paraphilias. Certainly we can acknowledge that some teen boys may be experiencing some form of early AGP and respond appropriately and compassionately without losing all sense of nuance and the individual and adopting the rigid thinking of the people who got us into this current era of affirmation only.
Oooooof I have not seen that clip of Malcolm Clark. That makes no sense to me. I definitely do not think these girls all have paraphilias. Not even the ones calling themselves furry or therian. What a strange comment for him to make. :(
It's around the 48 minute mark of the apotemnophilia video with Stella and Mia Hughes. Aaron Terrell has a friend called Anne Anoymous (or something similar to that) recently published something on Substack in which Anne frequently references Aaron. Anne makes the same absolutist claims as Aaron about the boys and takes them even farther by claiming most autistic ROGD girls are driven by paraphilias and tries to back it up with research that does not even remotely say what they're claiming it says about autistic women and paraphilias. I tried engaging with Anne in the comments but I'm not sure how productive it was.
I'm not denying that some young people might be driven by AGP or some other paraphilia, which seems to be the response to anyone who pushes back on the "all ROGD boys are really AGP" people. The point I keep trying to make in my comments to Aaron and Anne is about their certainty there are ONLY two possibilities for boys, nothing else is possible, and their one personal theory explains everything. This is just a terrible way to approach psychology and the needs of adolescents. It completely erases the individual and the nuances and complexities in their inner lives, past experiences, and current environment. It doesn't consider all the ways personality or other mental health issues can be part of the picture. It even flattens out the complexities of autism and limits it to the narrow presentation dominating the online discourse about what autism in teens and adults looks like (see the most recent Blocked and Reported for a reasonably good discussion of the autism angle). It tells the therapists or doctors to have their minds made up about their patients before they even meet them. Of course AGP can be a factor for some adolescent males but it's not ALL males and we have no idea how many it may be. Just like the Cass report and every other systematic review shows we don't have any good research about gender dysphoric kids and what's happening with them and being done to them, we don't have any real research about the ROGD (or whatever you want to call them) boys. It's only anecdotal evidence collected in a way that does nothing to control for confirmation bias, and projection, selection bias. And then all those biases and projections seem to be fueled by tensions with gender critical and radical feminists (who also are engaging in too many "this one thing explains everything" narratives IMO).
I know I'm ranting and rambling here, but it disturbs me so much to see this kind of single very narrow narrative that you can fit every single case into show up more and more on this side of the debate.
I completely agree. I think gender dysphoria is generally a symptom and not an isolated disorder of it’s own. Therefore, it’s root is as individual as the person experiencing it. For me, flipping the framing this way allowed everything to make much more sense. That, plus, understanding concept creep and culture bound syndromes. If you’re distressed and people say your distress means “X” you will claim “X” because that’s the only way to get your distress heard.
I think my young adult daughter was looking for a sense of community with her trans ID. It felt like she missed her launch opportunity because of starting college during lockdown. Although it would need to be modified - of course -- because my daughter is an adult, I do think I could suggest that to her as food for thought.
A question I'm struggling with lately is whether I should keep trying to plant seeds of doubt about trans ID now that my daughter has passed the point of no easy return to her actual sex due to a year and a half of testosterone. I'd love to get other's thoughts on that.
Wish I could edit the above to say that she's passed the point of no easy return to being perceived as her actual sex. She is and always will be female.
What if she’s now 22 and been at this for 4 years, on T and her face is scarred from all the acne from taking T. What if she can’t control her temper and screams at you if you say anything she doesn’t like? I’m so terrified and depressed.
I was in college in the early 90s when eating disorders were at a peak. Although this is mostly thought of as a female problem, I knew of several males who struggled and were treated for eating disorders (bulimia). With today’s social media influences at the fingertips of every youth, it only makes sense, to me anyway, that boys could be just as easily affected by this as girls.
I have copied+pasted my comment from twitter, and added a few comments:
I found your newsletter to be very encouraging regarding public understanding of this issue. I found that autogynephilia described what I felt as a teenage boy in the 1990s, and I share the "ROGD boy" profile. I don't blame counsellors for believing that they had found something new, given that autogynephilia has become such a caricature (had I not had my experience with autogynephilia, I would probably have thought the same).
However all one needs to do is to look at the past, at people such as Lynn Conway, [1] to see that "shy boys" with gender dysphoria, who can also be incredibly gifted, are also represented under autogynephilia.
I can also understand the concern that parents must be feeling, with the prospect of autogynephilia being behind their teenage son's gender issues. Regarding this I agree with what you said at 20:20, that it need not be a massive issue. There are also other issues that can be solved, such as spending too much time online, which may turn what would have been a propensity in previous generations, into a disorder (defined as something that unduly affects everyday life). Naturally, I think there will be some cases of autogynephilia which are always going to be difficult, despite social influence.
I agree with other things that you say about nurture. Although I think the propensity for autogynephilia is innate, I think it can also be affected by social conditions, as we are quite strikingly seeing today, where males with the propensity for autogynephilic identity disorder are being told that they literally have the "gender identity" of a woman, which is causing chaos that would not have happened in previous generations.
I also agree with what you say about it being one thing to understand the mechanics behind the typology, but another to counsel clients. I do find it encouraging, however, that you do appear to understand the mechanics, especially regarding the unusual phenomenon of pseudobisexuality. As Blanchard has written, pseudobisexuality may "mislead the inexperienced clinician into a diagnosis of homosexuality". [2] I think if counsellors understand the mechanics, then they are less likely to go down false rabbit holes, such as trying to explain autogynephilia through psychodramas, such as that pseudobisexual autogynephilic boys have "internalised homophobia" and are really repressed gay men, or that it is all caused by some abstract "shame", which completely confuses cause and effect.
I think her identity is in alignment with being able to have an opinion/a voice on matters. If she was of the oppressed class, she can have a strong position on the war in Gaza and identify with them. It’s rejection of her privilege. If she was just a boring young woman who people assume is white and privileged, she wouldn’t be allowed to “speak” in her mind.
I think some of the “sweet, autistic boys” are actually running from their sexuality (rather than expressing it.) Az Hakeem talks about some of the men he has worked with who are basically asexual but they can still orgasm in a sort of functional way. Imagine being socially awkward, and much more attracted to things than people, yet being physically saddled with the raging hormones of a teenage boy. On top of that, hearing or seeing that “boys your age” should be girl crazy. In a black and white thought process you’d then think “I’m not a boy because I’m not interested in girls—I’m more interested in computers.” That all seems a perfect recipe for thinking your trans in today’s climate.
Big congrats on your marriage!
Regarding the adopting of a trans identity — in my daughter’s case, I think she wants to opt out of being a heterosexual female to avoid the hurt of being rejected by the opposite sex; to feel like she’s broken free of social expectations; and to feel like she’s the wise one for a change, the one on the cutting edge who’s figured things out that her parents/elders don’t understand. It’s a way to finally be cool on some level and have friends. It connects her with people she can identify with. It’s a reframing of herself and her life in a way that avoids addressing painful deficits and difficult change.
Congratulations! The pictures are beautiful!
I'm so glad you made the AGP video and discussed how important it is that people don't get dogmatic or too attached to pet theories. I have been so concerned seeing the growing number of people who say they are concerned about the effects gender ideology and the medicalization of children take such absolutist, hardline approaches to the boys: "ALL adolescent boys who ID as trans are either gay or AGP, that's it. No exceptions." I've heard them say the parents don't really know their sons, the detransitioners who say it was not sexual are lying or in denial. Isn't this kind of dogmatic thinking, the insistence there's only one right answer, and the total dismissal of the insights of parents and detransitioners exactly how we got into this mess in the first place? Isn't that the kind of extreme talk we would expect from someone like Jack Turban or Rachel Levine? And this dogmatism if AGP is now coming for the girls. Malcolm Clark was on a recent Genspect video with Stella insisting all the ROGD teen girls had paraphilias. Certainly we can acknowledge that some teen boys may be experiencing some form of early AGP and respond appropriately and compassionately without losing all sense of nuance and the individual and adopting the rigid thinking of the people who got us into this current era of affirmation only.
Oooooof I have not seen that clip of Malcolm Clark. That makes no sense to me. I definitely do not think these girls all have paraphilias. Not even the ones calling themselves furry or therian. What a strange comment for him to make. :(
It's around the 48 minute mark of the apotemnophilia video with Stella and Mia Hughes. Aaron Terrell has a friend called Anne Anoymous (or something similar to that) recently published something on Substack in which Anne frequently references Aaron. Anne makes the same absolutist claims as Aaron about the boys and takes them even farther by claiming most autistic ROGD girls are driven by paraphilias and tries to back it up with research that does not even remotely say what they're claiming it says about autistic women and paraphilias. I tried engaging with Anne in the comments but I'm not sure how productive it was.
I'm not denying that some young people might be driven by AGP or some other paraphilia, which seems to be the response to anyone who pushes back on the "all ROGD boys are really AGP" people. The point I keep trying to make in my comments to Aaron and Anne is about their certainty there are ONLY two possibilities for boys, nothing else is possible, and their one personal theory explains everything. This is just a terrible way to approach psychology and the needs of adolescents. It completely erases the individual and the nuances and complexities in their inner lives, past experiences, and current environment. It doesn't consider all the ways personality or other mental health issues can be part of the picture. It even flattens out the complexities of autism and limits it to the narrow presentation dominating the online discourse about what autism in teens and adults looks like (see the most recent Blocked and Reported for a reasonably good discussion of the autism angle). It tells the therapists or doctors to have their minds made up about their patients before they even meet them. Of course AGP can be a factor for some adolescent males but it's not ALL males and we have no idea how many it may be. Just like the Cass report and every other systematic review shows we don't have any good research about gender dysphoric kids and what's happening with them and being done to them, we don't have any real research about the ROGD (or whatever you want to call them) boys. It's only anecdotal evidence collected in a way that does nothing to control for confirmation bias, and projection, selection bias. And then all those biases and projections seem to be fueled by tensions with gender critical and radical feminists (who also are engaging in too many "this one thing explains everything" narratives IMO).
I know I'm ranting and rambling here, but it disturbs me so much to see this kind of single very narrow narrative that you can fit every single case into show up more and more on this side of the debate.
I completely agree. I think gender dysphoria is generally a symptom and not an isolated disorder of it’s own. Therefore, it’s root is as individual as the person experiencing it. For me, flipping the framing this way allowed everything to make much more sense. That, plus, understanding concept creep and culture bound syndromes. If you’re distressed and people say your distress means “X” you will claim “X” because that’s the only way to get your distress heard.
Best wishes to you and your groom!
I think my young adult daughter was looking for a sense of community with her trans ID. It felt like she missed her launch opportunity because of starting college during lockdown. Although it would need to be modified - of course -- because my daughter is an adult, I do think I could suggest that to her as food for thought.
A question I'm struggling with lately is whether I should keep trying to plant seeds of doubt about trans ID now that my daughter has passed the point of no easy return to her actual sex due to a year and a half of testosterone. I'd love to get other's thoughts on that.
Wish I could edit the above to say that she's passed the point of no easy return to being perceived as her actual sex. She is and always will be female.
What if she’s now 22 and been at this for 4 years, on T and her face is scarred from all the acne from taking T. What if she can’t control her temper and screams at you if you say anything she doesn’t like? I’m so terrified and depressed.
I was in college in the early 90s when eating disorders were at a peak. Although this is mostly thought of as a female problem, I knew of several males who struggled and were treated for eating disorders (bulimia). With today’s social media influences at the fingertips of every youth, it only makes sense, to me anyway, that boys could be just as easily affected by this as girls.
Congratulations!
I have copied+pasted my comment from twitter, and added a few comments:
I found your newsletter to be very encouraging regarding public understanding of this issue. I found that autogynephilia described what I felt as a teenage boy in the 1990s, and I share the "ROGD boy" profile. I don't blame counsellors for believing that they had found something new, given that autogynephilia has become such a caricature (had I not had my experience with autogynephilia, I would probably have thought the same).
However all one needs to do is to look at the past, at people such as Lynn Conway, [1] to see that "shy boys" with gender dysphoria, who can also be incredibly gifted, are also represented under autogynephilia.
I can also understand the concern that parents must be feeling, with the prospect of autogynephilia being behind their teenage son's gender issues. Regarding this I agree with what you said at 20:20, that it need not be a massive issue. There are also other issues that can be solved, such as spending too much time online, which may turn what would have been a propensity in previous generations, into a disorder (defined as something that unduly affects everyday life). Naturally, I think there will be some cases of autogynephilia which are always going to be difficult, despite social influence.
I agree with other things that you say about nurture. Although I think the propensity for autogynephilia is innate, I think it can also be affected by social conditions, as we are quite strikingly seeing today, where males with the propensity for autogynephilic identity disorder are being told that they literally have the "gender identity" of a woman, which is causing chaos that would not have happened in previous generations.
I also agree with what you say about it being one thing to understand the mechanics behind the typology, but another to counsel clients. I do find it encouraging, however, that you do appear to understand the mechanics, especially regarding the unusual phenomenon of pseudobisexuality. As Blanchard has written, pseudobisexuality may "mislead the inexperienced clinician into a diagnosis of homosexuality". [2] I think if counsellors understand the mechanics, then they are less likely to go down false rabbit holes, such as trying to explain autogynephilia through psychodramas, such as that pseudobisexual autogynephilic boys have "internalised homophobia" and are really repressed gay men, or that it is all caused by some abstract "shame", which completely confuses cause and effect.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Conway
[2] http://individual.utoronto.ca/ray_blanchard/GID_Men.pdf
Congratulations Sasha! Stunning photos! ❤️
Thanks for sharing some wedding photos! Absolutely gorgeous and such a glamorous dress! Congratulations!
I think her identity is in alignment with being able to have an opinion/a voice on matters. If she was of the oppressed class, she can have a strong position on the war in Gaza and identify with them. It’s rejection of her privilege. If she was just a boring young woman who people assume is white and privileged, she wouldn’t be allowed to “speak” in her mind.
Congratulations!!! That's awesome. :)